Should police officers carry their guns while testifying at the Legislature?
I was at the State Capitol yesterday to testify against SB 671, the bill that would allow public officials and state employees to solicit and/or accept invitations or tickets to charitable fundraising events of any kind, with no limit on value, as long as the gifts came from a charitable or a nonprofit corporation.
Also on the agenda were several bills of concern to police departments, and there were a number of uniformed officers present to testify or provide support to those who did testify. All uniformed officers were armed.
It seems to me that simple courtesy and appropriate respect would suggest that officers check their guns with the sheriff’s office downstairs before appearing before any legislative committee.
Actually, I would also question whether it is appropriate for officers to testify in uniform except when specifically invited by the committee to represent their departments.
Here’s what Honolulu’s ethics law has to say:
Elected or appointed officers or employees shall not use their official positions to secure or grant special consideration, treatment, advantage, privilege or exemption to themselves or any person beyond that which is available to every other person.
It seems to me that displaying uniforms and guns can reasonably be interpreted as using the symbols of their official positions to back their testimony on a variety of social and political issues, and therefore should be restricted.
I would be interested in how others see this.
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I was there and was uncomfortable with the guns as well–in such a crowded space a person could take a gun off an officer and start shooting. 2 of 48 officers “feloniously killed” in the U.S. in 2009 were killed with their own guns (http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2009/feloniouslykilled.html).
Restricted … by whom? I would think the police department has a policy restricting the wearing of uniforms to those on paid duty. If they’re stopping by the Legislature to testify during the workday, they’d need to get clearance for that and make it clear whether or not they’re speaking as police officers. I think they’re permitted to carry a concealed weapon if they’re on duty, and I’m not sure why that should change if they testify. Don’t Capitol security guards carry weapons? I’m just leery of the Capitol itself regulating what you can wear while exercising your right to testify.
Ian finds an interesting point, as usual.
But we disagree on this one. A police office is on duty 24-hours a day. They are armed on or off-duty. The purpose of an off duty weapon is they are expected to always be available to keep the peace.
If something happened in the Legislature (and it certainly has in places around the country), an officer could not protect the public without his or her weapon. Don’t forget, an officer can frequently be a target just by virtue of what they do.
We would be more uncomfortable if they checked their weapons before coming in.
Honolulu Notes
How do you know when an officer is committing perjury?
A. When they wear the uniform to testify..! Gun or no Gun.!
A. 2 the bigger the gun the bigger the LIE !
Thank you for drawing attention to this matter.
I saw Det. Letha DeCaires once testifying at City Hall. She is paid to do that by HPD and wears her full uniform while she does (including gun). Also, those officers that come every month to our Neighborhood Board meeting to give us our crime stats and answer questions also are on duty and wear their guns. I actually feel pretty safe around them.
I think Ian rasises a worthy point. Police drink, swim, hike, go hunting and do lots of other non-police things. They need guns while on duty.
Before a council or legislatuve body, I think they should shed the gun and uniform unless on paid, assigned duty to quell some concern of misbheavior.
Because the building is not sealed off, I would lean on the side of letting them carry. They have to cross a lot of public area in which they might need to engage as police officers.
If that capitol was sealed building with metal detectors and the sheriffs had the place secure, then I think leaving the guns at the door makes sense.
Wow, I’m not getting the point most of you seem to think Ian is making and with which most of you seem to agree.
If police officers are at the Capitol to testify in their capacity as police officers, i.e. as representatives of their departments, of course they should wear rheir uniforrms and their guns are part of that uniform. Efen if they were in street clothes, they’d still be carrying a concealed weapon. As one person noted above, police officers have police power 24 hours a day and there isn’t a one of them that doesn’t have a private firearm legally strapped to their ankle — or something else — when they are in street clothes, on or off duty.
If police officers are testifying on, say, laws relating to a community association in which they happen to live, i.e. as an individual, they absolutely should not be in uniform. Only in such an instance, IMNSHO, would the ethics law regarding “secur[ing] . . . special consideration, treatment, advantage, privilege or exemption” come to bear.
I had a run in with a Wildlife Services agent at the humane society a few years ago who was bragging about how he usually just shoots feral cats dead ( in the trap ) rather than driving them down to HHS. Sure enough, there was his big gun hanging on his hip. He upset me enough that I filed a complaint on the weirdo and was very surprised at how much trouble he got in ! Not for the comments he made to me but for having his gun on him in a public place . Turns out that is a huge NO NO. HPD is different tho – they are suppose to have a gun with them all the time – on and off duty – as far as I know.
Ian, I would be interested to know at what point an HPD officer changes out of his uniform and back into street clothes ? Don’t they do all their clothes changing at the police station ? My fire dept friend actually will turn his HFD t-shirt inside out if he stops anywhere on his way home from the fire station. It sounds to me like if they were in HPD uniform then they were on duty and had not yet checked back in with the station to get off duty and change their clothes …..
I think there is a tendency to flaunt and try to create a presence with their uniform. It’s as if we HAVE to respect their uniform.
I’ve also seen firemen come dressed in uniform to hearings to do nothing. It just makes me wonder if they have too much idle time at hand.
This post reminded me of an October 2010 report in Bangor (Maine) Daily News. The paper reported that an election official at a polling place told an on-duty police officer that the officer would not be permitted to vote unless the officer turned over his weapon to another officer. The officer left the polling place without voting. The election official was subsequently dismissed and the City Clerk said she would call the officer to apologize. http://new.bangordailynews.com/2010/10/31/news/bangor/bangor-police-officer-denied-right-to-vote-after-refusing-to-surrender-weapon/
I for one feel more comfortable in the presence of an officer with a handgun.
If something happens in one of the committee rooms in the Capitol it would take several minutes for a sheriff to respond.
I bet if you ask lawmakers a majority would feel the same way.
I suspect those testifying were on duty. Not knowing what the bills were it is hard to make further judgement.
Not all police officers carry weapons off duty. I have friends in the dept and meet them socially and can attest to the fact that at least most of them were not armed.
Some off-duty officers leave their weapons in their cars, which has led to its own set of problems.
Be thankful that when there’s a bill regulating lap dancing, the employees affected don’t show up “in uniform.”
Speaking for myself, mind you.