Hmmmm. Honolulu’s mayor has proposed a , $1.8 billion city operating budget and nearly as much in a separate $1.3 billion CIP line for the rail project.
I would call that an attention-getter!
Here are several items for the rail file, a series by a Canadian group critical of Vancouver’s SkyTrain, which is the model for Honolulu’s system.
They start with a basic question:
Why after three decades of unprecedented investment in public transit has SkyTrain been rejected by transit planners around the world, even after an unprecedented sales program including being showcased at Vancouver’s Expo 86?”
In other words, if this all elevated “automated light metro” type of rail is so great, why have most cities opted for light rail instead?
They have a strong perspective, but they raise many legitimate questions which make for interesting reading.
“Debunking the SkyTrain myth”
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
One issue that keeps coming up is the added complexity of the all-automated system and the effects of aging and maintenance.
When we mentioned to friends from Vancouver that Honolulu is modeling its system after the SkyTrain, they had a quick response:
It’s automated. So when it stops, it stops for a long time. And it stops for a long time quite often.
Everyone knows that here in Hawaii, state and local governments are much better on building than on maintaining.
Deferred maintenance on the SkyTrain, like the Washington D.C. metro system, is blamed for current problems.
D.C. depends on escalators, as Honolulu’s planned stations do. What happens to aging escalators? A visit to Honolulu Airport provides a quick answer.
In any case, the “Debunking” series provides lots of food for thought.
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“Did no such thing, Mezz and you’re telling ever bigger fibs and I am very sad you carry your questionable tactics here.”
I did make a mistake, looking at your post again, it looks like you are comparing Vancouver’s transit authority with Joseph Goebbels.
Actually Mr. Mezz, I said that the SkyTrain lobby uses the same strategy as the quote: “Repeat a lie often enough and the public see it as fact………………………”
What we have shown our friends on the sunny isles is that the SkyTrain/LRT debate is ongoing in Vancouver and it is very nasty.
Until recently, the SkyTrain lobby held sway, but the power of the independent media is shredding the SkyTrain propaganda campaign.
Good luck in Hawaii and I do hope the best transit system is built in the end. There is nothing like bad transit planning to ruin the taxpayers day.
There are benefits to both skytrain and LRT. I can’t say which one you should use in Hawaii.
Personally I support skytrain more than LRT (especially if LRT is at grade). In areas that are of a higher density or of a much higher ridership. Once you grade separated LRT the cost difference isn’t all that much different. And there are other kinds of automated train systems.
Yes there is an on going war in Metro Vancouver. And I do believe that LRT would be good on some routes, but not all routes.
@ Zweisystem:
Are you REALLY sure that everyone who benefits from the SkyTrain system are really government bureaucrats? That’s like saying there are 800000 civil workers in the Lower Mainland alone. O.O
Your LRT costs also never take into account the fact that many lines here NEED to be GRADE SEPARATED. Trains running on or crossing city streets would cause considerable disruption to surface traffic, increasing congestion and accidents and removing parking spaces (and depriving many small businesses of income). If tunnelling or viaducts were to be built, your “LRT” system will cost closer to SkyTrain.
Your solution may work IN THE VALLEY with its vast area and less population, but it doesn’t work IN THE CITY, were most people live in close quarters.
Simply said, zweisystem disturbingly calls ANYONE who supports SkyTrain a liar, and “an enemy of the state” that works for local government in Vancouver.
He often uses this line: “Here lies the modus operandi of the SkyTrain Lobby: repeat half truths, untruths and pure lies often enough, people will believe you and steam roll over anyone who doesn’t beleive you!”
Little do you know, that’s his plan…and he’s accusing others of doing that instead whenever he is cornered. This quote is his plan for “defeating” SkyTrain expansion plans – by spreading lies as if they were truths in a written way that makes him sound superior.
Zweisystem can be compared to the tactics of Fox News personalities like Bill O’Reilly and Glenn Beck.
Ultimately, his goal is to prevent the City of Vancouver from going through with its much needed SkyTrain plans so that an insignificant light-rail/commuter rail line where he lives can be built. He will scorch reality, real facts, and the truth to get what he wants. Obviously, you shouldn’t take him seriously at all…but he’ll tell you otherwise. 😉
JC, JC, you are so, so deceiving. I did not call anyone a Nazi, rather I indicated that those who want LRT are simply treated as “enemies of the state”, because the SkyTrain metro system has been forced on us, by the state, without, and I must repeat, without any public debate.
In order to sell more SkyTrain, the operating authority tells big lies and because the media doesn’t investigate the lies, they are repeated to such an extent that they are believed by the public.
On tires of the tactic but what I see is the same tactic used by Hawaii’s SkyTrain Lobby.
What is needed is a truthful debate, not the half truths, and innuendo’s from half baked proponents who tend to rewrite history to suit there own ends.
The following quotes from noted American transit expert on SkyTrain is worth a read.
“I found several instances where the analysis had made assumptions that were inaccurate, or had been manipulated to make the case for SkyTrain. If the underlying assumptions are inaccurate, the conclusions may be so too.”
And
“It is interesting how TransLink has used this cunning method of manipulating analysis to justify SkyTrain in corridor after corridor, and has thus succeeded in keeping its proprietary rail system expanding. In the US, all new transit projects that seek federal support are now subjected to scrutiny by a panel of transit peers, selected and monitored by the federal government, to ensure that projects are analyzed honestly, and the taxpayers’ interests are protected. No SkyTrain project has ever passed this scrutiny in the US.”
Of course, the SkyTrain Lobby discounts the thoughts of real transit experts.
For the full letter:
http://railforthevalley.wordpress.com/2008/12/26/can-translinks-business-cases-be-trusted/
@ Allan K.
Untrue, sadly you show a profound naivety of modern public transport practice.
Funny though that very few cities built light-metro and even major conurbations like Paris are also investing heavily on at-grade light rail.
One thing is for certain, at-grade transit attracts a lot more ‘new’ customers than grade separated transit; maybe that’s why cities build their transit at-grade.